The following is an excerpt from a must read article.
Warning: If you are pro-war, it will should shake your foundations.
War for Islamic Sharia Law
If the mission in Afghanistan is two-fold -- the defeat of the abysmal Taliban and the creation of a stable, democratic state -- then it would appear that we are not doing well.
The same could be said of "nation-building" in Iraq. The true measure of our efforts in both beneficiary countries should be based upon an examination of the foundations of these countries that we have created with the blood of our best and our treasure. When such an examination is made, the result can be only horror.
The constitutions of Iraq and Afghanistan for those who love democracy, freedom, and liberty are failures. If the constitution is a failure, then what kind of nation can be built then upon it?
Neither the constitution of Iraq nor of Afghanistan is structured on the secular American model of the state subordinate to the will of the people. This concept is the foundation of American democracy given to us by Jefferson, Washington, Adams, Madison, Monroe, Franklin, and Hamilton; this is tragically not the foundation of our failed nation-building strategy in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Iraq and Afghanistan are both Islamic states (specifically stated as such in their constitutions). The people of both beneficiary states are therefore in service to Islam (i.e., the state is Islam and Islam is the state). This is not any form of "democracy" that most Americans can countenance or reasonably support.
Article One of the constitution of Afghanistan states that "Afghanistan is an Islamic Republic, independent, unitary and indivisible state." Article 2 of the constitution of Iraq states that "Islam is the official religion of the State and it is a fundamental source of legislation." Both states identify Islam as the bedrock of the state and also the law of the land.
Both Afghanistan and Iraq are Islamic states, as codified in their new American-supported constitutions. Sharia law is the law of Islam. Islamic law supersedes any laws in the constitution that are not Sharia law-compliant.
What can our war aims be when the result will be the creation of two countries that are ideologically opposed to our existence?
Read the whole thing: War for Islamic Sharia Law »»
Progressive nation-building of Islamic States, paid for in American blood and treasure.
Do you still think it's worth American blood?
I say bring them home immediately!
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THIS is the conversation we all need to be having. And finally, I found some people on the 'net that can discuss it intelligently and honestly.
"If the constitution is a failure, then what kind of nation can be built then upon it?"
The kind that, being borne of "American blood and treasure", won't threaten, directly OR indirectly, American treasure and blood in the future. I'm pretty much a heartless bastard when it comes to other countries. All I care about is my people. Before we did this, we got 9/11...we got Cole...we got etc, etc, etc.
Even if the new constitutions are based on Shari'a, I for one feel much more confident that the "breeding ground" aspect thereof has been castrated sufficiently so as not to allow, or significantly reduce the likelihood of, another round of falling towers. This is not to say that they won't continue to find other ways to get to us, but regardless of how their constitution is structured I for one feel far more confident that our influence in 'nation-building', as it were, means more than the words of their constitution.
This is the one big part of the Paul doctrine that I just can't get past. While I recognize the futility of trying to prove a negative (a la the 'things would have been worse without the stimulus' nonsense), I think that a serious examination of Islam leads to only one conclusion; anywhere it is free to fester and breed presents a situation that almost inevitably will result in the deaths of Americans.
That, coupled with the conclusion to which I've come after my study of Islam's history that this is always a core tenet of the "religion", is unacceptable to me as a Free man. For that reason I believe the Wars, while in my admittedly limited understanding not prosecuted to the fullest extent, were nonetheless the right idea.
Thanks CL.
An Islamic State by its very nature, is opposed to our very existence. We spent American lives building 2 more enemies. Sharia is radical Islam. And like you said, "anywhere it is free to fester and breed presents a situation that almost inevitably will result in the deaths of Americans."
"An Islamic State by its very nature, is opposed to our very existence. We spent American lives building 2 more enemies. Sharia is radical Islam. And like you said, “anywhere it is free to fester and breed presents a situation that almost inevitably will result in the deaths of Americans.”
That's exactly right, but we didn't "build" any enemies; they've been there for 1300 years. The question then becomes whether we want one that is opposed on their terms or one opposed on ours.
I choose the latter every day of the week and twice on Sunday. There will be less American blood spilled. That much is undeniable.
If you had to choose between being susceptible to either an unrestricted, free-floating virus beyond your control or one you created in a petri dish in a lab...which would you choose?
This is a no-brainer. We either kill them now or they kill us later. It's that simple.
We're not killing them, we're building up our enemies instead! Trusting an Islamic state is nuttier than Keynesian economics! We helped Osama bin Laden fight the Russians. How did that turn out? Was he gracious?
I'm not against fighting radical Islam, but our current plan is at best, drawn up by crack heads! "Let's give them a nice new Islamic state and we'll all be friends." Think about it. Maybe we should give them all new big screen tv's and a bunch of high-tech weapons to boot!
When did conservatives learn to love progressivism?
I'm glad you posted this. I was completely unaware of the fact that their constitutions included that language - as I'm guessing most Americans must be.
There's no more defending these wars, then... Bring 'em home. I was (hesitantly) in support of setting up two democracies and ending the oppression of females by the Taliban. By allowing them to embrace Sharia, we've wasted time, money, and lives while creating future enemies and dooming generations of women and girls to more (state-sanctioned) violent subjugation. The ONLY aspect of Sharia law I have ever considered as possibly positive is their banking/debt system.
Wow, am I glad I followed the "Hey, ladies" post here. I'm actually kind of shellshocked. This is NOTHING remotely like what I thought we were trying to accomplish.
If the mainstream news bothered to cover this, it'd be over. Politicians lie, lie, and then they lie some more.
The Islamic state isn't opposed to anyone's existence. You conservatives have got to watch the loony thing. Sharia is Islam as reconsidered by Muslim tradition. We don't agree with it. But that doesn't mean we have to kill it. Just let it alone. We are like a dog with porcupine. Not happy till both animals are in pain. And hate to bring it up but wasn't it your boy-prince who decided we had to bring democracy to these places that really don't want it? I don't remember Bill Clinton saying we had to get to Afghanistan to free their women. And come to think of it, now I remember that Iraq specialists at the time of the war thought the invasion was a very bad idea, my brother was one of them. All this wasted effort should be no surprise to anyone.
As usual Americans are always thoroughly and complete informed and warned about up coming disasters. They bravely ignore anyone who knows what they are talking about. And then stand in aghast amazement as what was comprehensively predicted comes true.
GO KURDISTAN!
I still don't think you guys are the loonies. I'm just angry. Excuse any perceived slight. Wasn't intended.
Actually, yeah it is. Have you read their constitutions? Do you understand what it means to raise the caliphate? Are you religious? Do you understand a deeply religious belief?
But all that said, I'm against it all in the first place! No nation building. No perpetual war. You can't defeat a religion with an army.
First, Saudi Arabia which is the mother of Islam fundamentalism has to be made a secular democracy. All the funds to terrorist organisations are predominantly from this Islamic theocracy.
Afghanistan has to be made a strict democracy with no anti-secular sections in the constitution. Guerilla warfare, banning sharia', freezing the accounts of all terrorist outfits in Afghanistan are are required to exterminate terrorists from Afghanistan. Just going around fighting is only going to deepen the recession.
Bold moves have to be taken without being hesitant. First, the Islam brotherhood organisations functioning freely in Egypt, Saudi Arabia have to be destroyed forever if the US is really serious in fighting against terror. No use fighting with just its workers in Afghanistan.