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What say you?
A better question would be "why NOT support Israel?" That is, how can we in good conscience abandon an ally and friend who is fighting the same enemy that we are? Only, they've been fighting Islamic terrorism longer than us.
Are you really buying into the "support for Israel means dead Americans" nonsense? That's equivalent to saying "Gitmo causes terrorism". The Palestinians will use *any* excuse to kill Jews. The Islamists will use *any* excuse to kill infidels. What we do (except for unconditional surrender, or total annihilation) won't change that.
We stood shoulder to shoulder with Great Britain during the blitz. How can we not stand together with Israel during the intafada?
I think we've just found our next debate topic.
A) setting them free is support, and B) we can't support a nation who refuses to support us.
Are we to suddenly believe Petraeus is lying? Are we to pretend Russell Kirk's prophetic words were wrong? Are we to never admit we're going about the defeat of radical Islam wrong? Should we just stick our heads in the sand and hope for the best?
Until the era of Obama Israel did "support" us. Naturally they have interests which diverge from ours, just as we have interests which diverge from theirs.
How can we not keep Israel under the America umbrella with a nuclear Iran a fait accompli?
I didn't say Petraeus is lying; but I do believe he is playing politics to achieve his own ends. How is what he is saying different from when the Dhimmicrats say "Gitmo causes terrorism"?
I do agree with you that we are going about the defeat of radical Islam in the wrong manner. Kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out. What we have done vis-a-vis Israel is hold them back. It's always the U.S. preaching "restraint". Their occupation of Gaza is a classic example. They should have gone house to house and cleaned out the militants once and for all. Then conscripted the children into schools which don't teach Jew Hatred 101. The best way to defeat an enemy is to totally and completely vanquish him. Then he knows he's beat.
Politicians start and "manage" wars. Petraeus simply fights them. And this isn't about Obama. It's about America's interests. If we insist on tying Petraeus' hands for the benefit of the Israeli government, we should bring them all home now!
How many nuclear warheads does Israel need before they can step out from under the umbrella? And if they are to stay under the umbrella (is this a Rihanna song?), shouldn't they respect our wishes?
Who's interests get prominence in our foreign policy? America? Or Israel?
We've been at this for more than twice as long as it took to win WWII ... with no significant results. Israel is now sticking it to us ... As American citizens, why do we continue to put up this crap?
Besides, "show me the money!" America doesn't realistically have the money to patch roads, let alone fight an endless war. How much support will we be able to offer after we go broke?
Allies work together all the time. We made many concessions to Coalition partners in the first Gulf War. How is Israel "sticking it to us"? By continuing to build settlements on land that is rightfully theirs? By not laying down to die in the face of Palestinian aggression? By refusing to accept an Iranian bomb?
Longer than WWII?? Really? I guess all those troops we kept in Germany throughout the 50s, 60s, 70s, etc were just props? How many warheads does NATO need before we can come home from Brussels? We didn't occupy Japan for decades too? We're not on the 38th parallel?
It's facile to blame America's foreign policy problems on Israel, and it's equally facile to blame Israel's situation on us.
And check out what Donald Douglas has to say about this:
http://americanpowerblog.blogspot.com/2010/03/mark-perry-hezbollah-flunky-apologist.html
*If* Petraeus didn't write this article, or *if* his views are more nuanced than a Hamas flunky might want to project, then the conclusions drawn by it are perhaps not viable.
I don't take my own government's arguments for granted, let alone a foreign governments.
That said, what Petraeus is saying is that Israel's current actions are causing our soldiers a problem. I knew my opinion on this would be "controversial," but there's no logical reason why.
Look, the Israeli people are as uniquely independent of their government as we are of ours, and Israel's government is hardly a shining light of hope and freedom!
Why saying that upsets people is beyond me? Our government is heading for complete tyranny! Saying that doesn't make me any less of a patriotic American as does saying it about Israel's government. America is a creed (see the declaration), not a government.
Friendship is a two-way street. If Petraeus is right, then Israel is being a lousy "friend."
And as for why do we have our military stationed all over the planet ... thank Woodrow Wilson. Far from defeating communism or fascism, et. al. ... We have a communist in the White House and a corporatist economy. In other words, we may have won some fights ... but we lost the battle. And blew an unthinkable amount of money along the way.
President Washington's farewell address comes to mind.
My goodness, how long do we need run interference as the "Great Satan" for Israel? 62 years and countless billions upon billions of dollars is more than enough friendship, and it's time to let them defend themselves appropriately by getting out of their way. And Israel has no more "right" to exist than does the United States, or any country for that matter. And before someone goes all biblical with Abraham/land to the Euphrates/3000 years ago etc, it means about as much to me as whatever Allah is proclaimed to have told his followers, or what God told the guys on Youtube predicting earthquakes and the rapture.
Look, if you CHOOSE to live in a tiny little country formed 62 years ago surrounded by a few hundred million arabs and persians that you relentlessly piss off with your righteous-talk, don't come demanding the United States to push them around in your sandbox. Our founders were so concerned about freedom of religion in THIS country that they placed it in the FIRST Amendment, and we seem to all get along just fine here. Acting surprised when your 95% or so religiously homogenous nation pushes around religious brethren (there are a lot of muslim palestinians) of allll the countries around you is absurd.
I always say, invite the jewish people to come live in the United States. Jewish folks are probably one of my favorite ethnic groups, because on average those who are my friends are fun and smart people, as are their relatives. But don't come asking for my tax money because you tell me God told you that my country has to protect your religious-country.
I don't think so. Israeli influence needs ixnayed from U.S. Foreign Policy in a BIG WAY for both Israel and the United States.
welcome to the murky situation that are relations with the middle east. nothing in the middle east is as it seems. do you think 11 israeli agents could infiltrate dubia, kidnap a hamas agent, torture him for information, and then assassinate him and exfil with no help from arabs? if you do, then you'll probably buy any story that israel's actions jeopardize our troops. on any given day in the middle east, you never know where allegiances lie or how quickly they can change. much of what was and is written about Israel today ignores the current threat that iran poses to the middle east and israel. the arabs aren't going to threaten israel right now because they are the ace in the hole to handle iran's nukes. most public statements about any relations in the middle east are window dressing. i wouldn't give them much weight.
[...] face. And Biden laid into Israel as a result, and then the next day, General Petreus published this report condemning unbridled US support for Israel as undermining our security position in Afghanistan, [...]